00:00:49.799 - 00:01:13.470

Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm wonderful. How are you? Very well, thank you. Sorry, you caught me trying to make my office look more professional before we get started. Oh, come on. Thank you. Thank you so much for Being here. Oh, good, thanks for inviting us

00:01:13.470 - 00:01:36.160

or accommodating us. My pleasure, um. It's uh Uh, I feel like we've had, uh, a bit of a foreign and international and comparative theme this academic year with, uh, between you both and Christina Alian. So, uh, I, I noticed when I was looking at all of

00:01:36.160 - 00:02:00.650

the folks who had registered that it's, it's, it's all of the, the team you would expect, uh, is excited. The FDIL team, that's interesting. Hm, well, how are, how are, how are things uh where you are? Um, I feel like I should apologize to Canada, uh,

00:02:00.660 - 00:02:23.149

whenever I, well, not your fault, but we, you know, we're, where we're at, everybody's on the edge, you know, it's very scary, the world is very scary right now, so, truly, yeah, it's uh, it's sad. It's, it's, yeah, we all have more important things to think

00:02:23.149 - 00:02:49.710

about than than these self-inflicted. Uh, wounds that the United States is, uh, throwing around. So, uh. Yeah, it's it's it's taking up a lot of uh It is, it is taking a lot of bandwidth from everybody. That's exactly the word I was looking for. It's, you

00:02:49.710 - 00:03:11.080

know. The law students, you know, they're, uh, uh, it's, it's just not, it's not the best, you know, like in the libraries, we can't really subscribe to what we like anymore because, you know, we get, um, our supplier is Gobi. Um, ESO, so it's in US

00:03:11.080 - 00:03:34.809

dollars, of course. It's um, it's just horrendous, you know, everything everywhere you go, you feel it, you know, you feel the pinch. You can't get away from it. No, you can't. You can't. You can't in the grocery store everywhere, you know. I'm concerned about, uh, our

00:03:34.809 - 00:03:52.089

LLM students. Uh, we haven't heard anything official, but I can only imagine that they're not gonna want to come here to study the way that they would have a year ago. They're maybe they'll go to, to Canada, um, but has its own problems too with that

00:03:52.089 - 00:04:17.980

because they changed the policy. On This, this baffles me. I. Hi Yasmine. Hi, how are you? I am good. How are you both? Good, good, good, good. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll just launch into my housekeeping now that, uh, you're both here. Um, so I have some

00:04:17.980 - 00:04:36.980

prepared introductory remarks, uh, to share, uh, that I, I usually will just do first. Um, I, I have. Cribbed from your overview, uh, of the book that you prepared for this talk, and, uh, from the bio the bios that you shared. I, I cut them down

00:04:36.980 - 00:04:56.559

just a little bit because they don't want to hear me talking as much as you. Um, and then I will, uh, I'll hand it over. Do, do you already know who would like to speak first? Uh, Yasmin will speak first. OK, don't want to speak first.

00:04:57.720 - 00:05:17.000

No, you speak first. Well then, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shout you out at the end so that, uh, that handoff goes well. Um, would that be just to introduce myself? It's, it's, yeah, I, I, I just what I want to avoid is For me to stop

00:05:17.220 - 00:05:39.320

and then for there to be that kind of dead space while you negotiate. Um, so I'm gonna introduce you briefly, um, and then, of course, you can say more about, uh, yourself, your research, the project, um, however you would prefer. Um, and Uh, did you have

00:05:39.320 - 00:06:02.079

slides? Did you want to share? OK slides. We're gonna be speaking with the slide. Excellent. I'm gonna go ahead and make you both co-hosts so that you. Excellent. Uh, you will have full power to, uh, share those. Do you want to Just throw them up on

00:06:02.079 - 00:06:47.299

the screen briefly to make sure that there are no hiccups with that. OK. All right. I'll do that. Can you see it? Perfect. Looks great. OK, wonderful. OK, walking. Love it. Excellent, um. We are going to be in good shape then. Do you want me to

00:06:47.299 - 00:07:02.540

stop? Um, it's, it's kind of up to you all. Would you like to have just your opening slide filling the screen while we do introductions and then, um, so you don't have to do it when I hand it over to you? No, it's OK. Let's, let

00:07:02.540 - 00:07:22.809

them see our face. OK. All right. Very good. Um, beautiful. So, when I'm, when I'm done, It will be in your hands, uh, for the duration. So, I, I will not interrupt you or interfere with your, uh, your presentation. Um, we'll have, uh, it has, we'll

00:07:22.809 - 00:07:35.089

have both the comments, uh, yeah, the, the comment field and the Q&A. I ask people to use the Q&A so I can keep an eye on it. And then when we reach the end, if there are questions, I will read those out to you from the

00:07:35.089 - 00:07:51.079

Q&A so you won't have to worry about that. Um. And that way also if there are if anyone has, there's always someone who comes in 15 minutes late and is like, where's the link? Uh, so I will take care of those. I'll give them the link

00:07:51.079 - 00:08:10.630

to, uh, the book. And I will share the link to where the recording, uh, will live on our repository. Uh, there's always a bunch of questions about, you know, I missed it. Where's the recording? So, all of that will be preserved in, uh, the comments. And

00:08:11.619 - 00:08:32.229

Most importantly, we've never met face to face before. Uh, can I just make sure I am saying your names correctly? Um, Yamasi, Dina? Excellent. Uh, Yasmine. I, I, I, I listened to other people say this name because I, I, I don't trust myself, uh, Moai, Maurice,

00:08:32.349 - 00:08:51.260

uh, actually, yeah, some people pronounce it, but, uh, my pronunciation is Maurice. Maurice, Maurice, beautiful, thank you so much. I, this has been really stressing me out. Um, I didn't realize there was another. Person with the same name, the, the Brazilian author and activist. I, I

00:08:51.260 - 00:09:19.530

was, I was looking her up on YouTube because I, I, yeah, I was like this is not the same librarian, this is not a librarian, but, um, uh, um, she says her name slightly differently, so, um, excellent. Wonderful, thank you. Awesome. So we had 40-something folks

00:09:19.530 - 00:09:45.890

registered last time I checked. Um, yeah, it's I was, I was saying earlier, I think the, uh, our foreign our FCIL colleagues always rally to, uh, to support the community and to learn more. So that's always very nice to see. I All right. Hello. Oh hi.

00:09:46.409 - 00:10:01.679

Perfect there. Hi, how are you? Very well. My, my camera's not working. Oh, there it goes. There you are. So, I, I should have mentioned that you were just coming from another meeting. I wasn't sure you'd make it. Um, me either, but I'm glad that I

00:10:01.679 - 00:10:15.429

did. Mostly I just wanted to thank you both for doing this. Uh, we're really looking forward to it and we're so appreciative that you've, uh, submitted to be in the series. I'm really looking forward to hearing about your work. Thank you. Thanks for hosting us. So

00:10:15.429 - 00:10:31.789

I, I have our copy. I have a copy. Oh, I checked, I checked it out so that I could, uh, brush up. Um, so no one else can read it right now, but, um, the, uh, this is our first time featuring a full monograph. Uh, so

00:10:31.789 - 00:10:53.960

that's very exciting, um, and, uh, I think I get the impression from conversations with, with folks that, uh, many of our colleagues would like to write a monograph and feel like. Intimidated by the prospect. So I think hearing uh from successful scholars who have done that,

00:10:54.080 - 00:11:14.950

kind of in our, uh, our field is really uh fantastic. Yeah, yeah, it can be intimidating, you know, but you really have to be up to it and, you know, face off and just be determined, as you will hear. Yes, y'all, I'll say this first. Who

00:11:14.950 - 00:11:36.280

did you work with at Carolina Academic Press? Um, um, we had several people, we had several, yeah, but initially, uh, it was, uh, Carol, Carol, I remember last year, Carol did the initial meetings and, uh, review the proposal, but we had several other, um. Contacts, yeah.

00:11:37.419 - 00:12:04.159

Very good. Yeah, I, I, I have also worked with Carol a little bit, um, and, uh. A, uh, a friend to the law library community. Oh yeah, he's amazing, pretty obvious. Mhm. It can be very intimidating if, you know, if you're not strong. Yes, I have

00:12:04.159 - 00:12:28.469

a hard enough time finishing an article, so truly, I think I am very amazed during COVID as well. I mean, yeah. Hm Um OK, yeah, let me go ahead and we were a very good team. We did not disagree on anything whatsoever. Yeah, I couldn't have

00:12:28.469 - 00:12:55.969

done it without Yamisi at all. So, very daunting project. Yeah, I don't know how anyone does this all by themselves, but, but maybe they shouldn't. Maybe it's always better as a team effort, right? Team is better. Agreed. All right, we are 2 minutes out. Um, folks

00:12:55.969 - 00:13:10.330

are starting to filter into the waiting room. So I thought right at the top of the hour, I will, uh, start us up. Everyone. It's gonna take, uh, a minute for everyone to kind of enter enter the space. I don't know why it takes time because

00:13:10.330 - 00:13:33.630

it's virtual, but it does. Um, and yeah, I I have I have way too much text here, but, uh, I will try to to move through it efficiently. Um, Yeah, anything else like last minute? Concerns, questions, everyone feel good? Yeah, good, yeah, good. I will, uh,

00:13:33.640 - 00:13:55.630

put myself into hiding since I'm not actually on the panel, but, uh, looking forward to hearing it and thank you again. Thanks, Amanda. Nice to meet you. You too. I always ask people to come super early and then we're always like, But If I don't, something

00:13:55.630 - 00:14:38.289

terrible will happen with the audio equipment or or something similar, so. Just making sure I've got all my links set up. All right. Uh, we're here. So I'm gonna switch us on to, it's showtime. All right. All right. Welcome to the folks who are just

00:14:38.289 - 00:15:06.609

joining us, um, coming in from the waiting room. Thank you so much. We're gonna start momentarily. Excellent, OK. So I see folks are still trickling in. I'm going to, uh, kick us off just to make sure we have uh the full benefit of our time.

00:15:07.000 - 00:15:21.880

And I'd just like to welcome all of you. Thank you so much for joining us for today's Biddle Speaker Series event. My name is Genevieve Tang. I will be your host for today's session. Uh, if you've joined us before, you know that the speaker series exists

00:15:21.880 - 00:15:38.270

to showcase emerging and impactful scholarship on all aspects of legal information. And it is my great pleasure to introduce our speakers for today, Yamisi Dina and Yasmin Mora Morais, who will be speaking on their recently published book, Legal Research Methods for the English-speaking Caribbean. I'm going

00:15:38.270 - 00:15:51.070

to be placing a link to the publishers' website for their work in just a moment when I am done speaking, and I am particularly excited. I was telling our speakers about this earlier for today's session because it's going to be the first time we're featuring colleagues

00:15:51.070 - 00:16:07.729

who will be talking about a book length work. If you already have this title in your collection, you'll know that it covers a tremendous amount of information. We've got legal history, legal education. Bibliography, of course, geography research, all the topics for which the law is actively

00:16:07.729 - 00:16:24.179

evolving. And in fact, this book provides the first comprehensive source for researchers focused on Caribbean law. So it's very exciting to see members of our profession joining forces to fill this need for the legal community. Um, I had asked, uh, our speakers to share not only

00:16:24.179 - 00:16:36.140

kind of about the subject matter of their work, but also to talk about their scholarly process. So they are going to tell us about the origin of the book, their collaboration, and share some insights that they have gained through the publication process. And of course, bringing

00:16:36.140 - 00:16:52.859

us up to speed on the Caribbean legal landscape. So without further ado, I'm gonna introduce our speakers. Yamasi Dina is chief law librarian at the Osgoode Hall Osgoode Hall Law School Library at York University. She previously worked as a law librarian at the College of the

00:16:52.859 - 00:17:10.339

Bahamas, University of the West Indies LLB program, the Nigerian Law School Council of Legal Education Lagos campus, as well as the Richmond Hill Public Library in Ontario, Canada. Uh, all of our speakers have more extensive biographies. I'm gonna, uh, jump to her teaching and scholarship, which

00:17:10.339 - 00:17:26.538

span law librarianship, information technology, legal research methods, women's studies, and foreign comparative and international law. She teaches library research in the first year legal process course and an upper upper year seminar in foreign comparative and international law legal research. And of course, you may also know

00:17:26.538 - 00:17:40.808

her as a colleague from the American Association of Law Libraries where she serves as chair of the African Interest Group of the FCIL Special Interest Section, the British and Irish Association of Law Libraries, the Canadian Association of Law Libraries, and the Caribbean Association of Law Libraries.

00:17:42.380 - 00:17:56.520

Yasmin Moraes is the Foreign Comparative and International Collection Development Librarian at the Harvard Law School Library. And before that, she was head of collection services at the Mason Law Library at the University of the District of Columbia. Yasmin earned a bachelor's degree and a master's degree

00:17:56.520 - 00:18:10.890

from the University of the West Indies, an LLB with honors from the University of London, and her MLIS from the University of Toronto. Yasmin is active in AALL as well, serving as a member of the Committee on Relations with Information Vendors and is co-editor of the

00:18:10.890 - 00:18:27.660

CRV Connection blog, and she was also chair of the Latin American Law Interest Group within FCILSIS from 2019, 2017 to 2019. Oh, you're so distinguished. Throughout today's talk, please feel free to add your questions to the Q&A, and I will be monitoring the chat and the

00:18:27.660 - 00:18:42.979

Q&A so that our speakers can focus on their remarks. Uh, so we'll have time at the end for questions. Um, so you can put your questions in the Q&A at any time, and I will raise them for our speakers. Whew, OK, thank you so much again

00:18:42.979 - 00:19:03.550

for joining us. And now I am going to turn it over to I forgot, uh, to Yasmine, thank you. Thank you, Genevieve, and good afternoon, everyone. Um, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule today to listen to our book talk. I'm

00:19:03.550 - 00:19:21.145

really grateful to the, uh, Biddle Law Library for including us in the speaker series, and we're looking forward to sharing with you the process of Of um, writing this book or research process and collaborating, uh, with the Amisi. I'm grateful to Aisi for having, uh, taken

00:19:21.145 - 00:19:41.319

on this project with me. And so without further ado, we'll jump into our agenda for today and Aisi will walk us through that and uh we'll jump into our talk. Good afternoon again and thank you for giving us this opportunity, uh, Genevieve and Amanda, and I

00:19:41.319 - 00:20:02.250

welcome, I thank everyone for, you know, spending your time with us this afternoon out of your busy schedule. It's been a real collaboration and um I'm going to be sharing the agenda. So we've given you like a timeline of how we worked through the project and

00:20:02.250 - 00:20:23.050

then you know what happened at the beginning and then the idea, the whole idea of, you know, writing the book and collaborating, the publication process, the research process, the writing process, the challenges, of course, as in any activity, the lessons were learned. And the developments in

00:20:23.050 - 00:20:52.140

the region and upcoming um legal policy. So this is our timeline capsule. So Yasmine, do you wanna start? Sure, so, um, around 2019, uh, we, I decided I actually was, um, Doing research services in addition to my cataloging uh duties, and uh, so reference uh was

00:20:52.140 - 00:21:12.515

a big part of that, and sometimes that included um foreign comparative and international law research. So, um, some of the students would from time to time come with questions related to Caribbean law. And so, um, after providing several of these um research consults. and, you know,

00:21:12.675 - 00:21:30.744

pointing them to generalize sources, uh, over time, I realized that there wasn't really in one place, you know, a publication that I could refer them to in terms of their legal research for Caribbean law. So the idea started to form that, you know, um, after searching,

00:21:30.795 - 00:21:47.910

I realized that there was a gap in the, in the literature and this area, so. I, you know, ruminated on this idea for a while and um realized that, you know, perhaps this would be really a daunting project for one person to tackle. So I knew

00:21:47.910 - 00:22:04.339

that Yeamisi had had written several um Caribbean law research guides and that she worked at the College of the Bahamas. And so she was the first person that came to my mind that would be perhaps the ideal person to take. on a project like this and

00:22:04.339 - 00:22:21.589

um so I reached out to Yamisi and described, you know, what I was thinking of and so um she immediately said yes, and uh I was really happy about that. Otherwise, I don't think this project. You know, would have um happened. So as you can see

00:22:21.589 - 00:22:39.530

from the timeline, you know, at the beginning of this idea, then COVID hit. And so, you know, we started thinking of how we would approach this. We were in two different cities, two different countries with full-time jobs, and, um, you know, we decided that we would

00:22:39.910 - 00:22:56.260

sort of, you know, work out how this process would go and, um, you know, actually Um, setting up different, um, ways of collaborating, which we'll describe in a little bit. So it's, you can see that it's a really long time span and that's just because of,

00:22:56.310 - 00:23:16.189

you know, being in lockdown, having full-time jobs, as I said. So, from 2019 onwards to um approaching a publisher at the WWI press, um, we work through that and we'll describe, you know, in detail like some of that experience for us and then, you know, just

00:23:16.189 - 00:23:38.540

the peer review from that and switching out from, you know, that press to the publication process. So that's kind of like the, the idea process to the point of publication. So you would see from the timeline that we transitioned, we had the peer reviewed process, and

00:23:38.540 - 00:23:58.760

then we finally got it published, and then the publisher, you know, also requested for a teacher's manual and an ebook option which was not in our plan. We just wanted something published and we were getting frustrated, you know, you would hear some more about that, so.

00:23:59.550 - 00:24:22.189

So the beginning. Um, Yasmine. Right, so, as I said earlier, just know that the main drive for this was just recognizing that there was a real gap. Of course, there have been extensive um materials written about Caribbean law. We do have active um publications from, you

00:24:22.189 - 00:24:45.770

know, faculty in the region and external writers, and that's, uh, you know, contributed to a really extensive, um, secondary um sources. So, in terms of the actual publication for the students who are actually within the Caribbean. As well as external researchers, this really highlighted that there

00:24:45.770 - 00:25:05.560

is a gap. So, Um, we felt that a publication that would give an extensive, uh, view of all of the different English speaking Caribbean, uh, territories and their legal systems, legal structure, as well as the educational system there. We felt that something like that would be

00:25:05.910 - 00:25:29.890

worthwhile pursuing. So, that's the backstory to the um book. And as you can see, it's an extensive region scattered, you know, throughout the Caribbean, eastern Caribbean, and, you know, the Western Caribbean, and these are all to approximately 20 territories that were former British colonies. So, you

00:25:29.890 - 00:25:48.545

will see that it's an extensive undertaking. They're, they're unique, you know, in their governmental structure, they're unique in their history as well, even though, you know, we have a shared history of British colonialism, but each territory has its own local government structure. They have their own,

00:25:48.645 - 00:26:12.469

you know, challenges, and so the tendency sometimes is to think of the Caribbean as a monolithic region, but there are different um peculiarities with each state, and it's also uh including territories which are still currently British dependent territories. So, and as Yasmin said, there's been publications

00:26:12.469 - 00:26:37.579

from, you know, professors in the region, and then there's a prominent librarian as well, um, Senator, Professor Senator Velma Newton. And who has written, you know, different types of bibliographies and indexes and tools, who has created tools for people to use, but the real need for

00:26:37.579 - 00:27:02.719

legal research methods material is what really gives us the drive here and the idea. So, As Jasmine said, collaboration was really the key. We were willing to work together. We did not disagree on anything whatsoever throughout the four years, despite the fact that there was, you

00:27:02.719 - 00:27:25.540

know, COVID, and we scheduled meetings, you know, not that we just randomly, you know, decided, randomly picked emails and talked over email. And then we created Google Docs for the projects and that was really very helpful. So either of us could jump in any time and

00:27:25.540 - 00:27:44.000

add whatever, you know, to the documents. So that was really perfect and communication was via WhatsApp and Zoom, you know, so it didn't cost us anything. We didn't have to pay any phone charges or anything, you know, because of the distance we didn't. Um, have any,

00:27:44.150 - 00:28:09.050

you know, long distance charges or whatever. Uh, so that really was helpful and Help us with the idea. Also like to add that we did not also travel to each other's cities during the the process at all, so that was helpful to be able to not

00:28:09.050 - 00:28:31.069

to minimize travel, yeah. So, um, AEC, do you want me to speak on reaching out to you, WI? Yes, OK, so, um, At the start of, uh, you know, once the idea was formed and Amisi was on board, and, you know, we had like an, an

00:28:31.069 - 00:28:47.680

outline of the idea. I reached out to the University of the West Indies Press, and they're based at the Mona campus of the University of the West India. I should, I should add that the University of the West Indies has um 3 main campuses, and so

00:28:47.680 - 00:29:06.949

Mona is one, and then there's the campus in Trinidad, which is Saint Augustine Campus, and then there's Cave Hill Campus in, in Barbados. So I reached out to the press office in Mona. And uh had initial discussions with Joseph Powell, uh, who unfortunately is now deceased.

00:29:07.329 - 00:29:26.234

And um Joseph uh liked the idea of the book, and, um, you know, once, once he reviewed the proposal, he was on board with that. So, um, that's our initial. Contact and we also worked with his acquisitions assistant Alhe. So, um, we started to work with

00:29:26.234 - 00:29:51.939

them on that and got to the peer review process. Uh, midway, unfortunately, as I said, Joseph passed, so there was new management with the, uh, press. OK. So there was, you know, that transition at the University of the West Indies press. And so the new board

00:29:51.939 - 00:30:12.339

took over. Of course there was COVID, and they had all sorts of challenges on their own boat as well, so there was a lot of transition there. Sometimes, you know, exchanges of emails kept unanswered, and we were wondering what was going on and then in the

00:30:12.339 - 00:30:30.959

end they got back to us and then They let us know that we had to start the peer review process all over again after we had received the feedback from the first group that we dealt with, so that was kind of very funny and frustrating, and

00:30:30.959 - 00:30:52.170

the kind of comments that we got back, the feedback, um, it got to a point where they told us, you know, like if we would consider working with a prominent professor. In, I can't remember what is their expertise um after we had done all the work,

00:30:52.550 - 00:31:14.459

so that was kind of very discouraging, and we just decided we were not going to go ahead with them. Um, we didn't give up, we kept, you know, moving on, and Yasmin was really disappointed, but I wasn't, because I had been through that before. So it

00:31:14.459 - 00:31:38.910

wasn't surprising to me, but you know, you just have to be strong and, you know, know that, know what you want and what you want to do. So we withdrew and decided to withdraw from Ui and Yasmin started searching for another publisher and She found um

00:31:38.920 - 00:31:58.949

Carolina Academic Press. I'll let her speak to that. OK, so, um, as Jisei said, the trend, the later experience with the UWA Press was really disappointing, and so we started looking around to see, you know, which publishers would, you know, be um good, a good fit

00:31:58.949 - 00:32:17.439

for the research that we had undertaken. So I reached out to Carolina Academic Press and uh from the very beginning, the response was very positive. I met with Carol from Academic, Carolina Academic Press, and she was very encouraging about it. She wanted, you know, she was

00:32:17.439 - 00:32:39.045

very interested to learn more about, you know, the Caribbean uh region's educational system, the bookstores, the publishing opportunities, and also just the whole legal landscape. So, uh, we went through Submitting the the manuscript to her, and I think I'd say that as a result of working

00:32:39.045 - 00:32:58.959

with Carolina Academic Press, it actually made the book stronger based on the feedback, you know, with areas that we perhaps might not have uh covered in depth, we actually ended up writing two additional chapters on that. So, it was a positive experience from the beginning. And

00:32:58.959 - 00:33:19.280

um so the research process, let me see, you can jump in. Yeah, so for the research process, we, you know, uh, we first started with searching the OCLC and the World card and making sure, you know, like finding other titles that we could consult or, you

00:33:19.280 - 00:33:39.349

know, things we could add to the manuscript and whatever we were writing. Then we came on to decide amongst ourselves who was going to write what, and you can, as you can see in the book, we have 12 chapters, even though we originally had, I think,

00:33:39.380 - 00:34:04.089

10, and then the feedback we had from, you know, the Um, peer review process, added, I think, additional 2 chapters. We did not, you know, have any issues dividing what, uh, amongst ourselves. Yasmine, of course, um, wrote about the The legal history, the historical parts, which

00:34:04.089 - 00:34:26.043

is Chapter one, like an overview of the Caribbean legal education, and then we also wanted, you know, to add for any researcher an understanding, a proper. Understanding of the geography, the history, and the politics of the English speaking Caribbean states. So I think people will find

00:34:26.043 - 00:34:49.039

that very helpful, you know, to understand the dynamics of the region. So. Then we knew we had to write a forward, so I will ask Yasmin to, I, I, you know, like that was something Yasmin, you know, took care of, so speak to that. So, um,

00:34:49.208 - 00:35:09.039

in terms of the, uh, input of Professor Steven Vasiani, he, uh, He is currently the uh uh professor of international law at the University of the West Indies, um, Norman Manley Law School, but he was also um Jamaica's ambassador to the United States and um my

00:35:09.039 - 00:35:27.469

uh interaction with him or experiences that he, he was actually, uh, my professor of international law when I completed my master's in government at uh UWMOO. And um I've taken one course with him on international law, but he, uh, with a focus on law of the

00:35:27.469 - 00:35:43.949

sea. He's an expert on the law of the sea. And um so, I, I reached out to him because I felt like this would be someone, you know, very um helpful to approach for this, and uh he was on board immediately and we're really appreciative of

00:35:43.949 - 00:36:05.159

that, you know, him capturing the, the essence of the uh book itself and the research. And um we also reviewed the government websites of um all of the territories that we covered, as well as the CARICOM website, you know, for treaty information and In doing the

00:36:05.169 - 00:36:25.030

part about uh the legal um education, we had to review all of the law schools within the region. There are several law schools, um, Norman Manly, and there's the Eugene Dupouch Law School in the Bahamas, Cayman Islands as well, and Trinidad and Guyana. And lastly, And

00:36:25.030 - 00:36:41.909

very importantly, we looked at the Council of Legal Education's website, and this is the body that, you know, certifies um law students for practice, and they wrote a very important report, the Barnett report, which really captured the history of legal education in the Caribbean, and from

00:36:41.909 - 00:37:09.030

that report, we were really able to gain valuable insights in the whole history and evolution of Caribbean legal education. So that was helpful. So as we mentioned, the feedback from the UE peer review process, aided, uh, you know, the new publications or newer publications, so that's

00:37:09.030 - 00:37:31.699

why you have us, you know, I think the last chapter, um, we did something on the, um, emerging topics, especially in the region. And then um the Carolina Academic Press also helped us, um, the feedback from them to add two new chapters, as I said, to

00:37:31.699 - 00:37:58.310

the manuscript. And then we worked with the existing research guides. Many of our colleagues also have research guides on, you know, Guyana, on Trinidad and Tobago. And Jamaica, you know, so those worked for us as well. And then the Library of Congress website and catalog was

00:37:58.310 - 00:38:21.350

very, very helpful. We used it, you know, to confirm and consult so many things and many links, broken links. We use the Library of Congress because, of course, they have everything. And then Wildcat also was very helpful in updating, you know, the editions of books and

00:38:21.350 - 00:38:39.199

titles that we consulted. So, and of course for every book you have to prepare an index. So, I have an expertise in that area, so we didn't have to spend any money, um. You know, for and to pay you, we didn't have to pay any indexer,

00:38:39.679 - 00:39:08.179

so I, I took care of that, and that was, you know, it was seamless, uh, for the process. OK, so the challenges. OK. Do you wanna take that? OK. So, the challenges were, uh, great, because, of course, we, you know, didn't have the benefit of in-person

00:39:08.179 - 00:39:26.229

meetings, so it depended on our schedules when, you know, we both had time. And um this was, you know, mostly done like uh working in the, working on the book in the evenings, weekend hours, scheduling Zooms for those times, and we both had full-time jobs. I

00:39:26.229 - 00:39:43.530

did not have the benefit of like a mini sabbatical or anything like that because, you know, my institution was not able to do that. So, everything was full-time. It was an isolating time because of the COVID restrictions and so on. Um, but, um, I'm grateful to

00:39:43.530 - 00:40:05.879

my former colleagues who offered, you know, uh, encouragement on the process itself, but, uh, as you can see, it was mainly, um, for me, evenings, weekends, and I let Yamisi speak about her personal experience and her, uh, support from her job. Yeah, so, um. The geographical

00:40:05.879 - 00:40:27.040

distance, you know, wasn't an issue too much because we were able to collaborate over Google Docs, you know, over the internet, so that worked, but it was a challenging period, you know, we were in isolation and there were restrictions, you know, and I was working full

00:40:27.040 - 00:40:45.620

time. I didn't have any sabbatical as well. And you know, you had to deal with all sorts of issues related to COVID. It was a very difficult time emotionally, so writing was, you know, daunting, but you know, you still had to do it, you were motivated,

00:40:46.020 - 00:41:03.209

but um. I had support from my employers. We were given professional days which you have to account for, so this book had to be presented to them. Like you had to tell them, you know, what you are taking the hours of the days for when you're

00:41:03.209 - 00:41:23.899

not available. So we had a research celebration in my institution last Wednesday. And this book was part of what was, you know, displayed by the Associate Dean Research, even though I didn't take it there physically, but it was displayed on the screen, so it's gratifying, you

00:41:23.899 - 00:41:44.840

know, and I'm thankful for that opportunity given to me by Osgoode Hall Law School and York University as well. I, you know, I'm also grateful to my family because, you know, like times when I'm writing on some weekends, you know, when I get time to stay

00:41:44.840 - 00:42:09.439

away from them, like, OK, I'm going to do this work, you know, I need to finish something, you know, they understood, so I'm grateful for that. OK, Yasmine. So, um, you know, from this experience, and, you know, we were aware of some of this that there

00:42:09.439 - 00:42:28.669

are really limited publishing opportunities, um, within the Caribbean. There are small presses and it's very competitive, and, um, also, uh, some of these presses, uh, most of them have, do not have experience publishing, um, with law librarians in terms of, you know, the areas that we

00:42:28.669 - 00:42:47.030

would cover. So, for example, you know, legal research and so on. So, Um, also, it's, you know, we learned that this a project of this nature, especially with the multiple states involved, that it's a project that would require more than one person to do it. Um,

00:42:47.129 - 00:43:03.050

and so, for us, that was really helpful that we had this collaboration and could tackle the material in depth. Otherwise, you know, we would not have been able to drill down uh as much with one person. And um we also learned that, you know, don't be

00:43:03.050 - 00:43:18.899

afraid to walk away from a publisher, you know, because um there might be times when there aren't, you, you know, you're not aligning with what they're requiring from you. So we, we felt um gratified that we took that step to pull our manuscript and move in

00:43:18.899 - 00:43:40.479

a different direction. Also, um, there is room for like further research as well. We covered as extensive a a book as we could, but there are still other areas of research for persons who are interested. For example, in recent years, there have um been um issues

00:43:40.479 - 00:43:56.860

that have come up with the Maroons of Jamaica, for example, I'm not sure if many people are aware that. There was a Maroon Treaty signed in 1739, which gave the Maroons some sort of autonomy within Jamaica, and there have been recent tensions with, you know, how

00:43:56.860 - 00:44:14.020

does that relate to, you know, the, the leadership from the government. How do they, you know, have their own autonomy within the country, and what can they do and cannot do. So that came up in, in recent times, attention. And there's also the multilingual nature of

00:44:14.020 - 00:44:31.610

the region that there are further opportunities for persons who may want to delve into the Dutch Caribbean, French Caribbean, Spanish region as well. There's, there's more, uh, there to drill down and to compare. And also legal education is evolving a lot within the region. There are,

00:44:31.810 - 00:44:47.689

there have been newer institutions and some law schools that have, you know, incorporated online or hybrid options, and it's growing as the region grows and develops. So, Those are a lot of the lessons we learned and things that we would like to share for people who

00:44:47.689 - 00:45:07.489

may want to tap into that region and um do further work. Yisi may have her take on other lessons to or to elaborate on this. Yeah, so I just wanted to elaborate on, you know, um, the fact that some publishers, you know, like maybe intimidating, maybe

00:45:07.489 - 00:45:28.909

they're bored, so the people on the peer review committee. Maybe, you know, very intimidating. I find that, you know, just as we experience in our daily, um, daily encounters, people don't take librarians seriously and they kind of like, oh, do you want to publish, you know,

00:45:29.020 - 00:45:48.030

like, sometimes they would ask, you have a PhD. I think it'll be better to have somebody with a PhD. I don't think anybody should feel intimidated by that. And you just have to stand your ground, and there are many opportunities for us in this profession to

00:45:48.030 - 00:46:13.540

publish. There's a lot to write about, so please, please, you know, don't be afraid. And if people throw things at you that would not, you know, align with what's your vision, don't be afraid to walk away from them. So I think, you know, the lesson, one

00:46:13.540 - 00:46:35.110

of the big things accomplishments here is the power of collaboration. I, as I said in the beginning, we did not disagree for a second on anything. To the division of chapters, I did not feel, you know, overwhelmed or angry, even despite the mood at that time.

00:46:35.270 - 00:46:57.330

So I think, you know, finding the right person to work with is very important. I don't really know much about Yasmine. We met in person. I think she came to Toronto in 2022, right. Yeah, and that was the first time we really met in person. We

00:46:57.330 - 00:47:19.179

talk over emails. We don't really know each other, but we just, I think our ideas just worked and they aligned together. So I think, you know, just find the right person and fire on. OK, so, Jasmine, do you also wanna add to that? Yes, I certainly

00:47:19.179 - 00:47:34.919

agree with that, that um things uh move smoothly in terms of how we decided on the divisions and so on, and, uh, like Emizi said, you know, don't be afraid to reach out to colleagues who may have similar interests that you have, you know. If, if

00:47:34.919 - 00:47:48.879

they've written a guide, and it overlaps with an idea you have for research, um, you know, you, you never know, people would be willing to say yes to it, or, you know, to delve further and um even if they can't do it, maybe to refer you

00:47:48.879 - 00:48:08.830

to somebody who may have that interest. So, um, it was really, uh, I think, a very um fruitful and a positive experience for me, collaborating, so definitely go for it, yeah. Uh, so we wanted to talk about some developments in the region that it might be

00:48:08.830 - 00:48:28.229

of interest to, um, to you. Um, the Caribin Court of Justice is a fairly new, uh, court, and, um, you know, that's an institution that's been growing and growing, you know, developing as a court. Uh, the, it is a court of last resort, uh, for Belize,

00:48:28.389 - 00:48:46.899

Barbados, Dominica, Guyenne, and Saint Lucia. However, not all Caribbean. Uh, the other Caribbean states are on board. They still refer to the judicial, uh, Committee of the Privy Council in, in England as their court of last resort. And in terms of the Caribbean Community, uh, they

00:48:46.899 - 00:49:12.929

recently agreed on a protocol on enhanced cooperation, and the further ratification to come would lead to free movement within the Caribbean by July of this year. So alternative dispute resolution is another thing that is becoming very prominent in the region. In Trinidad and Tobago, it's very

00:49:12.929 - 00:49:41.560

popular. There are all sorts of ADR courts and in the Bahamas as well. So this is something to look out for as well, another development and something to write about as well for those who are in that specialty. Mhm So, um, in terms of, um, some

00:49:41.699 - 00:49:57.939

current legal and political issues, um, thought we would, uh, add this link to what are the current and decided cases at the Caribbean Court of Justice, if you're interested in checking those out. And recently, there, there have been some border disputes within the region, and these

00:49:57.939 - 00:50:20.300

are involving CARICOM countries like Belize, Guyana. And there's a border, these border, uh, disputes are currently cases before the ICJ, which would be Belize and Guatemala, Belize and Honduras, and Guyana and Venezuela. And there are also, uh, proposals within CARICOM for greater economic cooperation among the

00:50:20.300 - 00:50:38.870

states. And most recently, Barbados decided to replace the king as a head of state. So they're now a republic, so we're not sure which direction other states will, will go. There are talks about that as well. And there's a very interesting project called the Juris Project,

00:50:38.969 - 00:51:05.459

which received funding from the Canadian International Development Agency, which is looking at court reform within the region, judicial reform. So, those are some things to watch. All right, I'm not too fast. That's OK. Uh, so Yisi will talk about the post-provocation review. Yes, so, um, we've

00:51:05.459 - 00:51:26.459

been looking at, you know, um, reviews for the book and most recently the latest one. I mean, the one we've seen is the A review from Susannah Winter in the Legal Information Management, which is the journal of the British and Irish Association of Law Librarians. So

00:51:26.459 - 00:51:47.979

this was very encouraging to note that the book is very useful and in another jurisdiction as well. So yeah, so. And we're, you know, hoping that everyone will find it, find the book very, very useful in their collection as well. There's an e-book option as well,

00:51:48.139 - 00:52:08.090

so if you don't want the print, um, I want that. So, we've um added some further readings for people. So if you want to learn some more, um, we'll put the link to the Barnett reports, the Caribbean Court of Justice, um, every other thing is in

00:52:08.090 - 00:52:31.649

the, uh, in the book as well. OK. So, and um, we welcome questions. Thanks for spending your afternoon with us. Thank you, everyone. Uh, thank you so much. Uh, this is terrific. Um, I, I have my own set of questions, but before I, uh, I would

00:52:31.649 - 00:52:44.909

open this up, of course, to the group, and while we're waiting for questions to come in, I want to flag something that just came in through the Q&A. Uh, legal information in the Caribbean in general can be tricky to find, especially because of the languages, but

00:52:44.909 - 00:52:57.149

you seem to have done a beautiful job getting together the English-speaking nations. The legal trends like the CCJ, I'm sorry to say I did not know about, so thank you for that. I am a law librarian in Puerto Rico, and I want to know more about

00:52:57.149 - 00:53:16.409

my neighbor countries. Congratulations on your publication. So, congrats as opposed to Uh, a question. Um, and while we're waiting to hear from other folks, I wanted to just start by asking, um, what surprised you the most as you were going through this process? Uh, was there

00:53:16.409 - 00:53:32.139

something that surprised you as you were learning? More about, I assume that some of this law was more familiar to you than others or some of the, the, the jurisdictions you were working with were more familiar than others. So was there something you were particularly excited

00:53:32.139 - 00:53:53.870

to learn about and bring into your own librarianship practice or something that surprised you about the publication process, um, anything like that? Do you wanna go first and you go, you go. Um, I think for me I'd say that, um, what surprised me when I was

00:53:53.870 - 00:54:13.350

doing the research was the vibrancy of, um, local government in the region, the municipal laws. So even though they're like tiny states, most of Of them that they did have a vibrant local government, um, you know, the structure of local, local government was very strong and,

00:54:13.360 - 00:54:42.149

um, so just documenting, you know, the various, um, you know, areas of local government law, I think municipal laws, I think that was very interesting for me to discover. Yeah, um, the evolution of the, um. The law schools is what, you know, I found very fascinating.

00:54:42.600 - 00:55:02.919

There are now many, you know, like options, um, virtual options which would work for people in that region. compared to years ago when people, you know, definitely have to go to the UK or they have to go to any of the UE campuses, so things have

00:55:02.919 - 00:55:21.800

evolved over the years. So that's what I found very fascinating. Thank you. We have a question, uh, from the audience, um, from, uh, Errol Adams asks, apologies, I arrived late, but could you speak to if you've had any collaboration with the Caribbean Association of Law Libraries,

00:55:21.840 - 00:55:42.340

and I understand, of course, that, uh, you see you are a member, so anything you want to say about that? Uh, no, we haven't, Errol, um, but this was Yasmin's idea, so I will let Yasmine speak to that. Um, so I recently became a member of

00:55:42.340 - 00:56:00.409

the Urban Association of Law Libraries. I think it's been a year or maybe a little over a year. At the time, um, I did not, um, immediately have any, uh, collaboration. I think my, the main focus was with Just because I guess I knew that ABC

00:56:00.409 - 00:56:19.570

had written those guides, I sort of zeroed in on her, but I knew she was a member of, of the association as well. But um we definitely would welcome, you know, any future, you know, collaboration with the group, um, and welcome, welcome that. Thank you. Uh,

00:56:19.729 - 00:56:38.530

another question from Errol. Was there any discussion about the proposed new law school in Guyana? Yes, we, I think there's a section that does touch on the development of that new law school, um, based on the, it was also included in the Barnett report. They did

00:56:38.530 - 00:57:01.080

mention, um, that as well. So, uh, we, we wrote, uh, under the law school, uh, legal education landscape, we did touch on the situation in Guyana as well. Thank you, Mary Angeli, I see the comments and the positive comments, thank you. Uh, if, if you don't

00:57:01.080 - 00:57:20.780

mind, another question from me. Uh, I was wondering if you could just speak briefly about how you decided on the organizational structure of the book. Because I feel like we're combining, thinking about all of these jurisdictions with all of these different sources of law and the

00:57:21.199 - 00:57:43.590

the plurality of secondary sources. How did you choose, uh, kind of what to make the top level focus for each chapter? Um, and how to divide up the book basically. So, I think, you know, we didn't really have any, you know, like, we didn't have anything

00:57:43.590 - 00:58:03.409

laid out, we just worked on our strengths. You know, personal strengths. So for example, you know, we decided we're writing on, you know, we needed to put something there about the legal education, the history of legal education in the Caribbean, and I thought, you know, Yasmine

00:58:03.409 - 00:58:22.260

is originally from the Caribbean, and I think she's the best person to look and research on that. We did, you know, work together on the legal research curriculum. We checked, you know, together, and then the research process, we also, you know, like thought, OK, um, you

00:58:22.260 - 00:58:39.270

do a lot of teaching, legal research, teaching, why don't you do that? So that was me. And then the local government, she also had, you know, the strength in that area as well and an interest, so she was the one who did that. So we didn't

00:58:39.270 - 00:59:02.120

really have any structure, so to say, we just agreed, you know, like, OK, you do this, and then the foreign comparative and international law research, um, I did that as well. And then when we got the feedback for the Emerging topics. Jasmine just volunteered and said,

00:59:02.199 - 00:59:21.719

you know, I'll tackle that so. It was just like, it was, like I said earlier, it was a seamless um experience. We did not disagree on anything, we just, we didn't have any structure, so to say. And I also felt like we needed to uh cover

00:59:21.719 - 00:59:37.729

a significant amount of the book on the court structures within the region because, um, you know, they're, they're so different. And even though, for example, the Eastern Caribbean, they have their own Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court, so we wanted to highlight that, you know, there, there are

00:59:37.729 - 00:59:59.629

different little collaborations happening, you know, within the Caribbean itself, such as the court structure. So that was important as well. Thank you. I think, uh, what you're describing sounds like a, I don't know, ideal ideal situation, um, in terms of a meeting of the minds. We

00:59:59.629 - 01:00:17.760

do have another question, um, from an audience member. For for folks who don't already have a copy of the book. Would you mind giving just a quick run through of the major chapters? Do I have a copy, Yasmine, do you have a copy? Uh, yes, I

01:00:17.760 - 01:00:41.270

have a copy. Do you want to run through just the chapters. OK, so, uh, chapter one, covers the Caribbean legal education and overview. Uh, chapter 2 covers the research process. Chapter 3 is researching Caribbean constitutions, and chapter 4 is researching legislation, statutes, and regulations. Chapter 5

01:00:41.270 - 01:01:07.594

covers local government, finding municipal laws, and chapter 6 is legislative history. Chapter 7 is researching case law, and chapter 8 would be Caribbean courts, court rules, and general court documents. Chapter 9 would be Secondary sources, and uh chapter 10, researching treaties, regional and international organizations. Chapter

01:01:07.594 - 01:01:34.149

11 is Foreign Comparative and International Law Research, and chapter 12 would be selected emerging legal topics. We've also included um uh the appendix to Caribbean Law School libraries and Caribbean Law Research guides. Thank you. Uh, another question, uh, from Errol. Is there much discussion about Caribbean

01:01:34.149 - 01:02:03.989

legal citation as a practice? Mm. Mm. Not really. Not really, we touched on, you know, in the research process, you have to, you know, cite properly, but there isn't anything, you know, um, for the Caribbean yet, they rely on the, um, Oxford um scholar. So that

01:02:03.989 - 01:02:26.120

was mentioned there. In chapter, I think chapter 2, the research process, yes. Thank you. Um, I'm gonna put out a final call for questions. Uh, the, the, we've got a couple of, uh, thank yous and congratulations in the Q&A now. Um, while we're waiting, I just

01:02:26.120 - 01:02:40.080

want to say how impressed I am that you did your own indexing, um, because I know that is such, uh, such a, when you're so close to the finish line, um, I think that can be a big roadblock for folks who are not experienced in doing

01:02:40.080 - 01:03:04.120

that. So, uh, I just wanna share my admiration for that. Um. Uh, any last words of advice you have for librarians who would like to Uh, share their expertise in following in your footsteps. You go first, Yasmine. Um, I, I think that um there is so

01:03:04.120 - 01:03:21.689

much, you know, to research, and um I really admire librarians who have been, you know, really filling the gap with research guides, articles, and so on. I would say, you know, uh, I'd encourage our librarians to jump in and um we need this more than ever,

01:03:21.770 - 01:03:40.080

I think, with, you know, so many. Uh, different, uh, topics to cover. I mentioned the whole semi-autonomous thing with the Marines, but Maroons, but it's, uh, a lot of, um, ideas and, um, topics that just need attention right now. I think, um, perhaps libraries could also

01:03:40.389 - 01:03:57.909

think about as well. Like mini sabbaticals, I did work at an institution before UDC that experimented with that. Uh, they don't have to be long, but they do help with just getting time to focus on that, and, um, I'd encourage, you know, to look at creative

01:03:57.909 - 01:04:23.469

ways that can facilitate uh librarians doing, delving into this kind of uh work, I think. Yeah. And I, I would add that, you know, there's a lot there to write about and not just research guides, but something, you know, like a book, monograph. And so I,

01:04:23.550 - 01:04:42.760

I, and I know there are many people who will be interested in collaborating and I acknowledge the efforts of um people like Lyonettes. Uh, Jackets, who has done a lot as well, and others that, you know, I can't remember, but who have written monographs on, you

01:04:42.760 - 01:05:07.899

know, international legal research, um, I think there's still a lot of gap to be filled, especially in smaller states and jurisdictions. Thank you so much. Uh, I really appreciate, uh, all that you have shared with us, uh, this afternoon. Um, so, on behalf of everyone else,

01:05:08.020 - 01:05:21.250

uh, thank you again for for joining us, uh, for today's event. Um, I have put a link to where you can get the book in the chat. Um, and, uh, I hope, uh, if you don't already have it in your collection that you will be adding

01:05:21.250 - 01:05:38.780

it shortly, um, to make sure there are no gaps that could be filled. Um, and just a, a round of virtual applause for our guests today. Uh, thank you so much. No. Thank you. All right, good afternoon, everybody. Bye. Bye.